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 Тема:Избитая тема:.. 15-05-2011 23:14:31 
Kirill
Подключился: 10-03-2011 23:15:24
Сообщений: 54
Проживание: gokigenn@mail.ru

     Пересматривал недавно видео со старых ледовых сорев (например, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vDrBVDZgmvw&feature=related): еще лет 6-7 назад большая часть трудности шла по льду-и ... красиво... Совсем по другому, некак на современных мировых Кубках, где каждый финал трудности-соревнование функционалов на однотипных перехватах; скоро и "четверку№ запретят, возможно (обсуждается такой вопрос)-тогда вообще все станет спортивно-силово-разнообразно...

    Меж тем Олимпийский комитет говорит-в Зимнем спорте-51%покрытия должен составить снег и лед. Это они про перспективы зедолазной трудности.

    конечно, Олимпиада не цель. Есть Чемпионаты и Кубки. Но... Уход нашего спорта на скалы и скалодромы, Я УВЕРЕН, на местном уровне ПРОТИВОДЕЙСТВУЕТ ПОПУЛЯРИЗАЦИИ. Доводы(от имени новичка):

-на лед я (новичёк) найду бюджетные кошки-молотки или получу в клубе; на скалы-другой металл, другие инструменты, другая цена-где взять?

-я(новичёк)посмотрю на ледолазание и скалолазание, пойму, что это одно и тоже почти и выберу теплый скалодром.

-я еще не понял техники, а меня загнали на скалу, про которую и корифеи говорят, чтоона куда труднее льда. Я слился, у меня развился комплекс неполноценности-я ушел

-я знаю, что есть теплолюбивый драйтулинг  и как новичек в упор не понимаю, почему он же зимой называется ЛЕДО лазанием. Особенно увидев, как спортсмены лазят по скале руками, повесив молотки на плечо!

    Прошу-не подозревайте меня в зловредности и злокозненности. Просто... Мне хочется обсудить вопрос о соотношении лед/драй. Не с целью утверждения чегото там. А просто так. Вот я считаю, что на местном уровне в квалификации лед/драй оптимально 80/20.в полуфинале 50/50, в финале  - 20/80. Гдето здесь есть возможность и для популяризации, и для "пророссийских" трасс в финале. А каково Ваше мнение?

 
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 Тема:Re:Избитая тема:.. 16-05-2011 00:10:11 
Himera
Подключился: 22-03-2011 00:03:04
Сообщений: 12
Проживание: 
Здесь что, предварительная модерация? Отправила сообщение - а оно не отражается... Для начала хотелось бы ясности с терминологией. Хотят лазать без льда - дело хозяйское. Но называть это ледолазанием - по меньшей мере странно. В память о том, с чего все начиналось?Вроде есть специальный термин - драйтулинг, микст - если это скалы с какими-то редкими ледовыми блямбами... Я за то, чтобы называть вещи своими именами. Ледолазание - это лазание по ЛЬДУ.
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 Тема:Re:Избитая тема:.. 19-05-2011 21:59:41 
ischenko
Подключился: 10-12-2010 10:30:58
Сообщений: 24
Проживание: Владивосток
 
Так об чем разговор..не пойму... Для НОВИЧКОВ - метал для льда и скал - один и тот же:-) нечего там военного нет, было бы желание. Лед - да он нужен, но как этап подготовки для альпиниста (ну, что бы в горах не очковать). Лед в соревнование - это уже прошлый век, все сильные спортсмены спокойной проидут, и что.. как раскладывать их по таблице?! Притом получается не равные условия. Первая 10-ка обломила/набила/сломала/усложнила трассу, а второй 10-ке получается либо легче либо труднее. Что есть не сама цель состязание (условия не равные). Далее - чтобы уверенно побеждать на льду/фанере/скале - нужно очень много и много тренироваться, причем систематически... Тут уж извините - кто на что учился:-) Тот формат который предоставляет Россия и Мир - мне как функционеру вкатывает - тупо лазать лед с ограничениями - это шаг назад. Тонкая работа молотками, кошками, уметь прочитать трассу, разложить свою функционалку, психологическую подготовку это и есть мастерство. По этому - если в регионах есть новички (б/р) - то они пусть соревнуются на льду. Разрядники считаю должны смотреть твердо в перед и разрубаться на рельефе максимально приближенном у к уровню ЧР. Ну и готовиться не за неделю до соревок, а за 6 месяцев, как минимум.
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Воля - это то, что тебя заставляет побеждать, когда твой рассудок говорит тебе, что ты повержен!!!
 Тема:Re:Избитая тема:.. 20-05-2011 01:01:20 
Kirill
Подключился: 10-03-2011 23:15:24
Сообщений: 54
Проживание: gokigenn@mail.ru
Я как раз о новичках-если ВЕСЬ краевой чемпионат править под Россию, то это и город потянет под Россию-не популяризует это в нек мере ледолазание, мне кажется. Как момент-в Хабаровске есть новички на соревах (теплый драй+лед этому способствуют), причем некоторые за год резко прибавили и скоро приблизятся ;-). А в Приморье-меня не было, я протоколы читал-с этим вроде как напряжнее. Об этом и говорю-найти балланс (я даже проценты вывел ;-)) - чтобы и тем и тем в пределах одних сорев. К цели отчетливее стремишься тогда, когда видишь, что она достижима (это именно для новичков актуально) А сильные мира всего очень уважают фестивальный формат - типа Кандергаста, Квэбека и Оурея. А там всегда лед - от четверти и до 2/3. И все в восторге, и никто на сколотый лед не жалуется. Правда вот там как раз можно увидеть канадцев,US (в этом году они в первый раз примут мировой кубок), Европу (пецль-тим и проч), а вот россиян - немного. Неформат? :-)
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 Тема:Re:Избитая тема:.. 20-05-2011 02:04:57 
Himera
Подключился: 22-03-2011 00:03:04
Сообщений: 12
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Саша. К твоему посту. Еще раз: куда вы стремитесь - это ясно. Удачи вам всяческой и все такое. Только не называйте тогда это ледолазанием. Пускай тогда ледолазание будет для новичков, для фестивалей и для экспедиционных восхождений по ледопадам. И те, кому нравится именно лед - они занимаются и будут этим заниматься. ЛЕДОЛАЗАНИЕМ. А то, что последние годы происходит на России и в мире под этим названием - что угодно, только не это. И не надо сваливать эти разные вещи в общую кучу. Это мое мнение.
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 Тема:Re:Избитая тема:.. 20-05-2011 02:37:09 
ischenko
Подключился: 10-12-2010 10:30:58
Сообщений: 24
Проживание: Владивосток
 
Ну я вас понял очень хорошо:-) Лед в соревнованиях для меня уже как то не интересен - ограничения эти, потом до соплей доказывать, что я бил в линию или типа там ноги мои были в зоне... Чисто просто полазать не в формате соревок или там фестиваля - да, клево. Помахать топорами. Но не больше. По этому если вы двигаете лед - клево, двигайте. По поводу процентов льда на трассах, это вам надо к "Находке" она проводит ледовые соревки. Ну и скалолазание ушло на фанеру - вроде уже все привыкли,что это зацеп+фанера. Просто на таком тренажере можно сделать действительно интересные трассы, одинаковые условия для всех, и вымерить расстояние вплоть до миллиметра. Что не дает сделать лед!!! Ну вот собственно моя позиция. Еще не все высказались из ледолазов
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Воля - это то, что тебя заставляет побеждать, когда твой рассудок говорит тебе, что ты повержен!!!
 Тема:Re:Избитая тема:.. 20-05-2011 07:15:46 
Kirill
Подключился: 10-03-2011 23:15:24
Сообщений: 54
Проживание: gokigenn@mail.ru
Не все ледолазы - это Саша,Лена да Кирилл ;-)
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 Тема:Re:Избитая тема:.. 23-05-2011 15:42:26 
ErmilovaAl
Подключился: 24-12-2010 18:21:08
Сообщений: 2
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Всем привет. Саня, ты только что сам назвал фанеру тренажером, так и должно было остаться. Равных условий не бывает никогда, где-то чуть,на милиметр сползет зацепа, где-то уже набили дырочку под зацепом, а один сдвиг молотка и эта дырочка сыграет роковую роль, на льду хоть можно молоток забить рядом,а фанера не позволит.Боитесь наступить в линию и потом спорить, так делайте ограничения шире, но услажняйте рельеф трасс, но это будет ЛЕДОлазание.
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 Тема:Re:Избитая тема:.. 23-05-2011 21:03:48 
ischenko
Подключился: 10-12-2010 10:30:58
Сообщений: 24
Проживание: Владивосток
 
Ну собственно песочницу свою сделать можно и лазать по ней, что бы тема ЛЕДОлазани не умерала:-) тем самым и заниматься ледолазанием. Мне это не интересно, уж извините. Что в принципе и показал конец сезона. На "двое" соревок я просто не нашел мотивации, скучно... Фанера+зацеп - да это сейчас мне интересно, тут все другое. По этому каждому свое. Я рад, что вы ратуете за лед, гляди в новом году и соревнования пол ледолазанию проидут в городе.
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Воля - это то, что тебя заставляет побеждать, когда твой рассудок говорит тебе, что ты повержен!!!
 Тема:Re:Избитая тема:.. 25-05-2011 02:03:26 
Kirill
Подключился: 10-03-2011 23:15:24
Сообщений: 54
Проживание: gokigenn@mail.ru

Нас уже четверо! :-)

Ау, ледолазы!!!
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 Тема:Re:Избитая тема:.. 26-05-2011 18:15:23 
julkina
Подключился: 17-01-2011 20:15:04
Сообщений: 2
Проживание: 
Лёд для души, фанера для тела. Зачем выбирать и вдаваться в крайности? Почему нельзя заниматься одновременно и тем и другим? Если на фанере не будут отработаны важнейшие элементы, то и на льду успеха не добьешься и, соответственно, удовольствие от этого не получишь. Все должно быть гармонично. Я тоже после скал очень долго не могла привыкнуть к фанере и получать положительные эмоции. :) Какая разница как что называется, главное получать от этого удовольствие. )
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 Тема:Re:Избитая тема:.. 26-05-2011 20:27:30 
ErmilovaAl
Подключился: 24-12-2010 18:21:08
Сообщений: 2
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Вопрос не в том - кто что любит, а в том как проверяется спортивное мастерство и как оно достигается
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 Тема:Re:Избитая тема:.. 03-06-2011 17:51:41 
julkina
Подключился: 17-01-2011 20:15:04
Сообщений: 2
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Ага, открываю фотоальбом на бауроке под названием "Сосулька": а там фото тренажера. Сосулька то растаяла. ))
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 Тема:Re:Избитая тема:.. 08-07-2017 21:12:07 
dongbei
Подключился: 08-07-2017 18:03:35
Сообщений: 20
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